Ultimate Showdown Part 2

We're back to continue the debate of the 100 movies to see before you die, modern classics. Once again I welcome to the forum Mr. IMDB himself, Lenny the Critic to help me break down the years 1996, '97 and '98. If you missed part 1, check it out here.

1996

ETC: so i figured its about time to continue the Ultimate Showdow pt. 2. we left off with 1996 and we will cover '96 '97 and '98....

Yahoo's picks: Big Night, Dead Man, Fargo, Ghost in the Shell, Lone Star, Scream, Secrets and Lies, Sling Blade, Swingers, Trainspotting

I totally agree with Scream being on the list. Despite my well known hatred/fear of scary movies I have to admit this was one of the better scary movies of all time (2nd in my opinion to the original Nightmare on Elm Street). What I like about Scream was that it was entirely realistic. It wasn't some supernatural being who can't be killed, it was a couple of psychos who terrorized a town. Having said that, I'll never watch it ever again. But the best of this class, and a movie that I'd put in my top 5 of the modern classic list is Swingers. I love this movie and it really put Vince Vaughn on the map. It also helped make Vegas cool again. I can't back that claim up, but it seems like the whole "Vegas baby" lifestyle really took off after this movie (see Oceans 11,12 and 13, What Happens in Vegas, Vegas Vacation, 21, Hangover).

As for the other movies they've listed I have to disagree with them all. Amazingly, I haven't seen Fargo. I've only heard good things about it but it looks a little wierd however that is to be expected from the Coen Brothers I guess. I think the most obvious snub of this year is Jerry Maguire. Despite having a heavy chick flick feel, its a great movie. Cuba Gooding Jr's only good role and it earned him an Oscar and not to mention Cruise's best acting performance of his career (not his best movie, but probably his best performance). I'm very surprised this got snubbed but Billy Bob Thorton and Sling Blade made the list.

Some others that are personal favorites that probably don't deserve the "modern classic" title but a case could be made for them include, Mission Impossible (if 94 was the Carrey Debacle perhaps 96 is the Cruise Catastrophe) The Rock, That Thing You Do, The Cable Guy, Primal Fear and the "good, bad movie" super trifecta of Twister, Indepedence Day and Executive Decision.

And I've never seen the English Patient, but I'm glad it's left off the list just because of my support for Seinfeld and their thoughts on the movie, specifically Elaine's take.

MR. IDMB, Lenny the Critic: I admit I only saw 2 movies on this list. I totally agree about Scream needing to be on the list. It rebirthed the slasher movie craze for the modern era. Swingers is one of my favorite movies, could put it in my top 10 overall. The movie that really started Vince Vaughn’s career and coined the phrase “You are so money baby and you don’t even know it.” And find one person who goes to Vegas and doesn’t say “VEGAS BABY VEGAS” at some point during their time there and I will fund your trip to Vegas.

Cannot argue about any of the movies on your snubs list, Jerry Maguire being at the top of the list. I agree with all of the others, and would like to note that Primal Fear may be the best movie that nobody has ever heard of, easily in my top 5. The Rock (Nic Cage’s best movie in my opinion, and Independence Day with one of, if not the greatest movie speeches of all time (future blog debate?)

ETC: I'm so glad you mentioned the Independence Day speech because it is one of the greatest movie speeches of all time, at least on the unintentional comedy scale. It so happens that I included the famous Bill Pullman speech in a past blog, the 4th of July entry as a matter of fact when I went to DC for the weekend. I noticed the party was beginning to fade so i pulled up the speech on youtube and the party responded exactly how President Thomas J. Whitmore intended. The drinking games intensified, the beer began to flow like wine and the women flocked to the party like the salmon of Capistrano. Needless to say, it became an hourly tradition and something that will continue this year as well.

Mr. IMDB, LTC: WE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT, WE WILL NOT VANISH WITHOUT A FIGHT.....

love it

1997

Yahoo's Picks: Boogie Nights, Eve's Bayou, L.A. Confidential, The Sweet Hereafter, Titanic

Mr. IMDB, LTC: Despite having the richest movie ever up until recently, it's kind of a lean year, only a few snubs that I could really argue to make the list.

I have only seen 2 of these movies in Boogie Nights and Titanic. Two movies that couldn’t be any more different, but both are must sees for very different reasons. Boogie Nights is probably the most unique movies I have seen and has a few great scenes with young hot Heather Graham. Titanic, despite being the love story of all love stories when it comes to movies, is a great movie. I have no problem saying that, it is a great movie. I am a huge Leo DiCaprio fan in pretty much any movie he does and he was very good in Titanic. Also, if you haven’t seen Titanic, that is just bizarre.

One movie that I definitely see as a snub is Good Will Hunting. A great script written by Damon and Affleck that launched their careers into orbit. Incredible performance from Robin Williams, all around great movie. I am a big fan of Air Force One, Harrison Ford at his best. Finally, shout out to Cage in Face/Off. I have to admit I had not seen it until very recently, and I enjoyed it.

Again, a lean year in my opinion.

ETC: As for '97, I'm in agreement. Boogie Nights is a must see, very different type of movie but totally captures the meteoric rise to fame/money/sucess and how quickly you fall from the top. Also totally changed the direction of Mark Wahlberg's career. He was still in the whole Marky Mark phase but after this movie he became a movie star.

As much as Pasquale is going to hate me for saying this, I totally agree about Titanic. It's a landmark movie, probably one of the 5 most memorable movies of all time and is the love story to end all love stories (the notebook might make a run at that title but I think it falls short). I actually saw this movie twice in the theaters and girls were crying like they lost a family member. I also am a huge fan of Leo and this is the first time I really noticed how good he was as an actor. Kate Winslett will always have a special place in my memory thanks to the famous diamond necklace drawing scene that is fantastic for a PG-13 movie and 12 year old boys.


I've seen LA Confidential and I enjoyed it but no way it deserves to be on the list ahead of Good Will Hunting. In fact this is the biggest snub to date because I think this movie might be in my top 5 movies of all time, but easily falls in my top 10. Its almost incomprehensible that this was left off the list and detracts from the credibility of Yahoo's list. Robin Williams was amazing in this movie and Damon and Affleck's script is one of the finest I've ever seen. Think about how many great speeches and moments there are in that movie. It's also Affleck's best performance as an actor and is really the only reason why I like him, even after all the bad movies hes made since then.

The other huge snubs in my opinion are As Good As It Gets, a movie in which Jack Nicholson won another Best Actor Oscar and Austin Powers International Man Of Mystery. I think if we're talking about memorable movies, Austin Powers has to be mentioned. It's such a good spoof that most people think its just a straight comedy. And as for As Good As It Gets I think that's a movie that gets overlooked. When I first saw it, I totally didn't get half the references and the deep theme of the movie, but now that I'm older and (not) more mature I like the movie much more. Also a few others that were left off were Liar Liar (Carrey still gets no love) Donnie Brasco and Men In Black.

We have to give a shout out to Cage here for his performance in Face/Off. When he was Castor Troy in the beginning, he was excellent. But when he was the husband he wasn't that good. Its a solid movie but by no means should be on the most memorable list. Same goes for Air Force One, a film that is a regular in our "good, bad movies" marathon and a favorite of Pasquale.

On to '98....

1998

Yahoo's Picks: The Big Lebowski, Out of Sight, Saving Private Ryan, There's Something About Mary

ETC: I agree with Lebowski, Saving Private Ryan and There's Something About Mary. The first time I saw Lebowski I didn't like it at all and I still don't love the movie. But the Dude is great and John Goodman as Walter makes the movie worth seeing.

Saving Private Ryan is fantastic, there really isn't a flaw in this movie. As of now its in the top 5 of this entire list for the years we've covered (90-'98 with Goodfellas, Forrest Gump, Titanic and Swingers rounding out the list). The opening scene at Normandy is so real and intense that I heard WWII veterans didn't want to watch it because of how accurate it was. I really can't say enough good things about this movie and its a travesty that Shakespeare in Love beat this movie out for Best Picture.

There's Something About Mary was the first R rated comedy I saw in the theaters and it was so funny that it marked the first time I cried from laughter at a movie (Anchorman holds my personal record with 3 seperate "tears of laughter moments"). There are so many great moments from this movie like the "zipper scene", the battle royale between Ben Stiller and a puppy and of course the infamous hair gel scene. Absolute classic comedy that sometimes gets overlooked.

I haven't seen Out of Sight so I can't knock this one only because I've heard good things about it. Hard to argue with Clooney and J-Lo in her prime and I just watched the trailer and it looks like a movie I would enjoy. Having said that, there are some notable snubs that should be talked about. The most noticable exceptions include Rounders, a movie that I never get sick of and knowing our shared affinity for gambling I think you would agree with that assesment. Jim Carrey continues to get no love as the Truman Show is left off the list, a movie that I would argue deserves mention and possibly a spot on the list. It's incredibly unique and the first of a slew of legitimate acting performances from Carrey, not to mention the always reliable Ed Harris. Another solid movie is Enemy of the State, a movie that makes me totally paranoid about the capabilities of technology (and seeing the new features of facebook and google I'd say this movie is way ahead of its time)

A few movies that I enjoy but don't consider modern classics at all include Nic Cage as Rick Santoro, a shady cop who finds himself in the middle of a murder conspiracy at an Atlantic City boxing match in the movie Snake Eyes. Another movie I like a lot is He Got Game and you can't argue with Denzel, especially when his character blurs the line between good guy and bad guy. Not to mention Will Ferrell's first starring role in "A Night at the Roxbuy" and i was like "EMILIOOOOO". Also '98 is unofficially dubbed the meteor year as both Armageddon and Deep Impact hit the theaters this year (Interesting side note, '97 was the unofficially dubbed volcano year as both Dante's Peak and Volcano came out. Why do natural disaster movies come in pairs? Keep your eye open for 2010's "Nor'easter" and "Tropical Storm Ernesto" coming to theaters soon).

Mr. IMDB, LTC: Saving Private Ryan, I don’t think there’s anything that needs to be said, arguably the best war movie made. There’s Something About Mary is another no brainer. The movie managed to walk a line between raunchy, gross-out comedy and a romantic comedy. Stiller is great, Cameron Diaz is hot, Matt Dillon is hilarious, and a great cameo by Brett Favre. I was interested to see your assessment of The Big Lebowski. It is a cult favorite amongst a lot of people, and when I had said I hadn’t seen it, people looked me like I was crazy, so I finally watched it and here is what I think. The Big Lebowski is the most overrated movie I have ever seen. I said it. Maybe because it was so hyped up, it did nothing. I remember saying at the end “that’s it?” Hopefully I haven’t offended too many people, but that’s how I feel.

I agree with all of those snubs you mentioned, so I won’t wast time commenting on them, but I will discuss a few that may have been overlooked. Edward Norton is my favorite actor, and I loved your mentioning of Rounders. But in my opinion, other than Primal Fear, Norton’s best performance is American History X. A movie that shows the harsh reality of hatred and racisim and Norton’s transformation after being locked up. An extremely powerful movie on an unbelievably touchy subject, really displaying Norton’s flexibility and range as an actor. Definitely could argue that this should be on the list

Another movie that I believe flies under the radar, in terms of being a good movie, is Wild Things. Wild Things hides behind is intense sex scenes (yes, Denise Richard is smoking in it despite her pretty awful acting), it actually has a pretty decent plot line with endless amounts of unexpected twists and turns. Now it would be ludicrous for me to say that it should make the list, but potentially a movie that gets overlooked based on its stereotype.



Well that sums up Part 2 of the Ultimate Showdown Debate as we covered 1996-1998. We are about to enter the 2000's and there are a ton of movies to talk about so I think it will only get more interesting from here. Again we love to hear feedback and if you have any thoughts about our reviews feel free to leave a comment and we will address them in the next post. For the record, so far our Top 5 movies from 1990-1998 are Goodfellas, Saving Private Ryan, Forrest Gump, Titanic and Swingers. Keep an eye out for Part 3 where we will debate the years 1999, 2000 and 2001. So until next time, as always......STAY SWEET!

The Ultimate Showdown Part 1

ETC nation, we are about to embark on a first here at ETC ETC ETC. A casual email about the "100 movies to see before you die" has turned into a serious back and forth email conversation between myself and Mr. IMDB himself, Lenny the Critic. Not only did we have an email chain going, but we were also having a Gmail Chat at the same time, so some of our conversation will be mixed in to the conversation as well.

So lets get right into and understand that both myself and Mr. IMDB himself, Lenny the Critic agree that we could write an entire book on this......

(Be sure to click the link so you can follow along with the list of the movies for each year)

Mr. IMDB, Lenny the Critic: Count how many movies you have seen on this list and then compare

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/100-movies-to-see-before-you-die-modern-classics.html

ETC: this would be a stellar blog entry. i think we should have good back and forth email convo about this and get it up on the blog. this is heavy though so its going to have to be well analyzed and broken up into segments.

Mr. IMDB, LTC: most underrated on the list in my opinion is the Matrix



I thought the first installment of the Matrix is one of the most clever movies i had seen, not to mention the sick special effects for a movie made in the 90s

ETC: definitely the most creative/innovative/copied movies probably on that list. im not sure if its underrated, i feel like everyones seen it or at least heard about it. i might have to give the underrated award to almost famous. that doesn't even have a little tag next to it that says "why you should see it"

Mr. IMDB, LTC: almost famous is a very good movie, but in my opinion its rewatchability is suspect


a very underrated movie that i just saw looking through it again is Memento. Christopher Nolan, the guy who directed the new batman movies, directed it. one of those movies that messes with your head to the point where you have no idea whats going on until the very end, much like Basic.

ETC: very true. almost famous is a little slow and parts do drag, but i like it alot. memento is great, thats very under the radar

ok so i like the breakdown so far, that can be a great intro to start off the blog convo but lets do this by 3 year periods and then some major awards like best of the list, underrated/overrated, worst movie(shouldnt be on the list) etc....

so starting with 1990-1992 i think the best movies from this period are CLEARLY goodfellas and silence of the lambs with thelma and louise, beauty and the beast and unforgiven just behind. in fact that would be my top 5 from this block. I'd even nominate Goodfellas to be a potential top 3/5 of this entire list.

For the most part the movies listed are pretty solid and should be on the list but clearly there are some that shouldn't be on there and some others that have been left off.

i have a big problem with 1992. I've never even heard of hard boiled (im guessing its foreign), ive never seen the player, no way supercop should be on there, and raise the red lantern looks foreign too.

some noticable absentees include...
1990- home alone, pretty woman
1991- point break (even though it shouldnt be on the list i love it and want to talk about it)
1992- reservoir dogs, a league of their own, a few good men

Mr. IMDB, LTC: I honestly dont think i could disagree with anything you just said



Goodfellas is definitely at the top of the list in this group followed by silence of the lambs


I think this list is solid with a few childhood favorites in which i would put in, including one that are in my personal top 5 favorite movies. A few of movies that I personally love are Home Alone (1990), Ninja Turtles (1990), The Mighty Ducks (1992) Aladdin (1992), and two movies that are in my personal overall top 5 favorite movies (very bold), which are Hook (1991)


I would agree that 1992 is the most overrated, based on the fact that there are so many movies that I never even heard of.

ETC: totally forgot about and overlooked hook. that is a great movie. its tough with movies that are perceived to be kids movies. home alone is probably the best example and hook should be in the discussion also of movies that resonate, everyone has seen them and theyre still as good now as when they were when you first saw them.
*G-Chat Convo:

i love aladdin the most above turtles and ducks and i guess if beauty and the beast is on their list aladdin should get some consideration as well. but aladdin just goes with the 3 that i listed that were left off the list that all 4 seem to be more deserving than the ones on the list. i think if for our list 1992 begins with a few good men, a league of their own, reservoir dogs, aladdin and then you can make an argument for unforgiven and malcolm x.

Mr. IMDB, LTC: 1993: You cant really argue that these three shouldnt be on the list, all three are classic movies in such different ways. Dazed and confused is a great movie with one of the greatest cameo appearnances by Matthew McConaughey. "That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age." Grounhog day is classic Bill Murray, enough said. Schindler's list, arguably the most powerful movie ever made.


Movies that I think could be argued to be in there; Jurassic Park, The Fugitive, The Pelican Brief


Personal favorites: Mrs Doubtfire, Cool Runnings, Rookie of the Year, and my number 1 overal favorite movie The Sandlot

ETC: Im with you on the movies that are listed. Dazed and Confused is such a generational movie in that it perfectly defined an era. granted it was a look back, but it really captured an entire way of life. And I couldn't agree more about McConaughey, could easily be one of the best cameos. That quote is amazing.

Groundhog Day is Bill Murray at his finest and really shows that he can do more than just be funny, that he is an excellent actor period.

You can't dispute Schindler's List. the only possible thing against that is the rewatchability is not there, but I think that is a testament to how powerful the movie is.

Jurassic Park has to be on this list, no questions asked. It's a great suspense movie and it's one of the most memorable movies not only of this particular year but possibly of all time. Couldn't agree more about the sandlot. we all know how we feel about that movie

Some huge noticable missing ones in addition to those you had are.......

a bronx tale, cool runnings, grumpy old men, rudy, the firm, the fugitive.

I think Rudy has to be on the list. It's one of the only movies that has the potential to make grown men cry

Mr. IMDB, LTC: 1994:



There are a lot of movies from this year, but I have only seen three, and all three are no brainers on the list. Forrest Gump, Shawshank, and Pulp Fiction. All phenomenal movies with incredible performances. Easily Hanks’ best movie, Robbins and Freeman in a perfectly told story, and Tarantino at his best.


I am blindly going to award Jim Carrey with the most snubs in a year award in 1993. Two of which are classics, 1 is just a movie I like.


I would argue before seeing the rest of the years that 1994 is at the top of the snubs list, on both a personal level and great movie level. Here is the list: The Lion King, Dumb & Dumber, Clear and Present Danger, Ace Ventura, Angels in the Outfield, D2 The Mighty Ducks, Major League 2, The Mask.


*G-Chat Convo: dude, 94 and 95 have an all-star cast of snubs. i thought 94 was bad, and i just looked at 95 and it might take the cake *
 
ETC: Agreed with your assessment of the movies listed. Gump, Shawshank and Pulp Fiction should be on the list. Gump is in my personal top 3 of all time, I mean its got everything you can ask for in a movie. It's funny, its sad, its got war scenes/action and its Tom Hanks at the top of his game. Shawshank gives me chills everytime i watch it. "hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things". And while I personally like Reservoir Dogs better then Pulp Fiction as a whole (story, development etc) Pulp is the more "fun" movie to watch. It's style has been copied so much since then its amazing. But the other 3 movies they have listed are tragedies when you look at some of the snubs.

Jim Carrey's career was essentially made in this year, which is incredible. The fact that Ace Ventura, The Mask and Dumb and Dumber all came out in the same year is shocking. 1 of those movies has to be on any list, and I'd argue that all 3 belong on the list for that matter. That has to be the best year a comedian has ever had in terms of movies. I can't imagine a better year than that? Can you think of any better year for a comedian?

Definitely agree about Lion King, I think it's my favorite disney movie and deserves some recognition. Clear and Present Danger, D2 and Major League 2 deserve to be talked about, especially CPD, but I think in comparison to the 3 that are originally listed and the Jim Carrey snubs, I dont think those should make the list

*G-Chat Convo: its crazy how many are left off, not to mention the ones they listed for the most part should be on there though. Jim Carrey's career was made that year, its incredible and none of them are on the list*

Mr. IMDB, LTC: 1995:



I need to retract my previous statement about 1994 being the top of the snub list, because we now have a new heir to the throne. I have seen 4 movies in here, but know about most of them. Toy Story, if I am not mistaken, is Pixar’s first bigtime movie in a line of great animated movies, with the classic quote “To infinity, AND BEYOND”. I am a big fan of Heat, a great modern crime movie with a loaded cast in Pacino, DeNiro, Val Kilmer, Jon Voight, Ashley Judd, Dennis Haybert, Natalie Portman. Wouldn’t be mad if it wasn’t on the list, but I like it. The Usual Suspects, in my top 5, no brainer on this list. Arguably one of the greatest “No fucking way” moments that leave you speechless in movie history, up there with the ending of Primal Fear. Kevin Spacey is incredible. I am going to keep Clueless on the list. Could go either way, started the careers of Alicia Silverstone and the late Brittany Murphy. Award for 30 year old playing a smoking high school girl goes to Stacey Dash, who may look hotter now at 44 than ever.


I am going to argue this is the most snubbed year based on the movies that made the list versus what didn’t make the list.


Great Movies: Apollo 13, Crimson Tide, Braveheart, Outbreak, Casino, Tommy Boy. The fact that none of these movies made it over Babe boggles my mind. Come on, Babe? Really Seth? Babe? REALLY?


Personal Favorites: Ace Ventura 2, GoldenEye, Seven, Bad Boys, Batman Forever
 
ETC: Fantastic analysis, It's almost exactly how i feel. Toy Story deserves to be on the list, really launched the Pixar revolution and look at how many great movies they've made since then. I love heat, but it is very long and there are some very slow parts, so I'm gonna leave it on the list just because of a few key scenes that make the movie. Usual Suspects is absolutely a no brainer. I think it's the greatest ending of any movie in the history of movies, better than Primal Fear (but that's very close). And whats amazing about Usual Suspects is that even when you rewatch the movie, and you know the ending, you're still fascinated and pick up on so many details that you missed the first time. Sometimes with ploy movies like that, you can't rewatch it because the "shock value" is lost, but that doesn't happen with suspects. Clueless definitely belongs as well no doubt about it. It's another generational movie, but this captured the 90s and it was made in the 90s. It will last and despite being one of the biggest chick flicks of all time, I love this movie and it's features Paul Rudd very early in his career as well.

This has been the most snubbed year so far, more so than the Carrey debacle of 94. Every movie you just listed as a snub are far and away superior movies than babe. In fact this could be argued as a reason that this list is terrible. Babe is on the list but all time classics like casino and braveheart are completely overlooked. And while we are picking on babe, we certainly cant leave Sense and Sensibility out of this argument. a hugh grant movie cant be said to a must see when we've got hanks, deniro, denzel and farley among others that were made this year. I dont think either of us have seen or heard of Living in Oblivion and before sunrise. And that doesnt mean they might not be good movies, but if both of us have never HEARD of them, they can't possibly be ranked about casino, braveheart or apollo 13 (and the rest of our snub lists)

Even your personal favorites, which would also be included on my personal favorites (or maybe guilty pleasure would be a better description) could be argued for, especially Seven. not to mention movies like billy madison, jumanji and die hard with a vengeance that are all enjoyable movies. Jumanji was innovative and unique and I'd much rather watch that than sense and sensibility.

*G-Chat Convo: haha excellent assesment, you almost took the words out of my mouth*
*Mr.IMDB, LTC: that whole year is a crime*


So that is our part 1 of our discussion. We broke it up by half decades, so Part 2 will range from 1996-1999. Mr. IMDB, Lenny the Critic and myself are having way too much fun with so we hope that you enjoy the debate as much as we do, and want to hear some feedback. So keep a heads up for Part 2 and until next time, as always....STAY SWEET!